TURN decision

[Johnny22]

No Limit Hold'em

Seat 1(BTN): ΕΓΩ (150bbs)

Seat 2: χ1 (80bbs)

Seat 3(BB): ΟΑΛΛΟΣ ($150bbs)

Seat 4: χ2 (90bbs)

Seat 5: χ3 (65bbs)

Seat 6: χ4 (220bbs)

χ1 posts the small blind of 0.5bbs

ΟΑΛΛΟΣ posts the big blind of 1bbs

The button is in seat #1

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to ΕΓΩ[Τs Τc]

χ2 folds

χ3 folds

χ4 folds

EΓΩ raises to 3bbs

χ1 folds

ΟΑΛΛΟΣ raises to 11bbs

EΓΩ calls 8bbs

FLOP (22bbs) [2s 6c 9h]

ΟΑΛΛΟΣ(139bbs) bets 16bbs

EΓΩ(139bbs) calls 16bbs

TURN(54bbs) [8h]

ΟΑΛΛΟΣ(123bbs) checks

ΕΓΩ(123bbs) ??

O ΒΒ είναι tight tricky με αρκετό potcontrol και με βλέπει σα LAG. H πιθανότητα να πιστεύει ότι παίζω το button και μόνο, είναι μεγάλη.

Καλοδεχούμενοι αυτοί που διαφωνούν με τα προηγούμενα streets απλά με ενδιαφέρει παρισσότερο νακούσω γνώμες για το σημείο που ρωτάω.

P.S: αν έκανα κανά λαθάκι στο post πείτε να το μοντάρω

[gsbets]

δυστηχως αυτο ειναι το δυσκολο οταν παιζεις με 150bb.

bet imo , αλλα με διαθεση για pot control.

απο εκει και περα αν κανει all-in "ο αλλος" ειναι θεμα read

για το αν μπορει να εισαι μπροστα.

ομως πιστευω οτι το check δεν ειναι η καλη επιλογη(edit )

δε διαφωνω καθολου με το call στο turn , πολλες φορες

κανοντας raise σε τετοιο board px 9 2 3 , δινεις ευκαιρια στον αντιπαλο

να pusharei και να σε βαλει σε πολυ δυσκολη κατασταση , και με 150ββ δε το θες.

στο turn υπαρχει καποιος που να συμφωνει με το

check/call any river , check/value bet

[holdemgr]

Den exeis kai toso kala reads.

Check to turn. To bet einai lathos.

sto river an kanei bet, genika fold UI. An kanei check kai to river den einai A,K,Q kane ena mikro value bet mhpws kanei call me A-hi, an kai mallon tha kana check behind proswpika ektoas an diplwsei to board sto river

[Johnny22]

"genika fold UI"

sry θέλω μετάφραση για το UI

[gsbets]

Johnny22 έγραψε:

"genika fold UI"

sry θέλω μετάφραση για το UI

unimproved

[Johnny22]

holdemgr έγραψε:

Den exeis kai toso kala reads.

Check to turn. To bet einai lathos.

sto river an kanei bet, genika fold UI. An kanei check kai to river den einai A,K,Q kane ena mikro value bet mhpws kanei call me A-hi, an kai mallon tha kana check behind proswpika ektoas an diplwsei to board sto river

Γενικά κάνω check στο turn και callάρω river σε κάποια συχνότητα. Κάποιες κερδίζω , κάποιες χάνω , κάποιες χάνω επειδή I got rivered οπότε θα ήθελα να μάθω γιατί πράγματι είναι λάθος το bet στο turn

[kounamoutas]

check - call

[Basilis18]

Tha simfwnisw me ton holdem.gr...Se kamia periptwsi bet sto turn. Etsi opws blepw egw tin partida apo tis plirofories pou mas dineis ta pio pithana tou xeria mou kanoun se "AA,KK,QQ,AK (Isws kai JJ,AQ,99,88 apo tin wra pou se thewrei LAG kai briskete ektos thesis alla auta einai einai ligotero pithana kata ti gnwmi mou alla oxi apithana)H ekseliksi tou olou hand mou kanei perissotero gia ena kalostimeno trap (opws eipes thewreis ton antipalo sou ikano gia tetia moves)alla isws kai gia mia prospathia me filla opws AK (ligotero pithano "AQ,88" na <kerdisei> to pot apo tin wra pou de se thewrei toso dinato sta starting hands sou!

CHECK sto turn kai CALL se bet sto river an den emfanistei kapio scare card (A,K,Q,J) kai to bet den einai terastio (pou logika den tha einai an exei ontos kallo fillo)!!An kanei check kai sto river to pio pithano einai na exeis to kalitero hand apo tin wra pou den emfanistei kapio scare card kai isws na ekane call se kapio small bet me arketa metrio fillo (AK,88 px)logw tis LAG eikona sou!!

[holdemgr]

Johnny22 έγραψε:

οπότε θα ήθελα να μάθω γιατί πράγματι είναι λάθος το bet στο turn

Eimaste pisw apo to value range enos tight paikth kai theloume na krathsoume to pot mikro

Den yparxoun arketa xeirotera hands na kanoun call

An mas kanoun c-r tha einai katastrofiko. De mporoume na kanoume call kai "petame" arketo equity (exoume kai 4 outs gia nuts)

Mas epitrepei na paiksoume kalytera sto river, opou exoume thesh xwris na exoume foyskwsei to pot kai mporoume na paroume mia kalyterh apofash ektimwntas to fyllo sto river, ta pot odds pou exoume, to bluffing frequency, timing bet sizing tells klp kai mporoume na ton stackaroume an xtyphsoume to fyllo mas h na kanoume kai value bet an kanei check (oxi oti prepei na kanoume aparaithta)

[kounamoutas]

Ποια είναι τα 4 out για nuts?

[holdemgr]

kounamoutas έγραψε:

Ποια είναι τα 4 out για nuts?

Den ebala ta 10ria. 6. Ektos an exei 57, 7T klp

[w0undy]

Den mporw na pw pws gernw tromaktika eite pros to check behind eite pros to bet alla epeidh den grafthke kati sxetika me to bet, tha to kanw egw.

holdemgr έγραψε:

Eimaste pisw apo to value range enos tight paikth kai theloume na krathsoume to pot mikro

Eimaste ontws pisw apo to "value check" range toy alla einai sxedon anagkasmenos na kanei pot control (ektos an exei set obv) giati to turn xtypaei to range mas ekei para poly.

Den yparxoun arketa xeirotera hands na kanoun call

Gia emena edw krybetai h apanthsh. Sxetizetai kathara me to pososto kai kyriws me to range poy kanei 3bet (vs steal).

An mas kanoun c-r tha einai katastrofiko. De mporoume na kanoume call kai "petame" arketo equity (exoume kai 4 outs gia nuts)

Nomizw pws kathara epeidh einai std pot control turn gia megalo meros tou value range toy, an fame c/r einai eykolo fold kai xwris typseis. Epishs to check metatrepei to fyllo mas se bluff catcher kai h alitheia einai oti den moy polyaresei ayth h idea.

Mas epitrepei na paiksoume kalytera sto river, opou exoume thesh xwris na exoume foyskwsei to pot kai mporoume na paroume mia kalyterh apofash ektimwntas to fyllo sto river, ta pot odds pou exoume, to bluffing frequency, timing bet sizing tells klp kai mporoume na ton stackaroume an xtyphsoume to fyllo mas h na kanoume kai value bet an kanei check (oxi oti prepei na kanoume aparaithta)

Praktika olh h trapoyla einai enantion mas (eite giati tromazei ta hands apo ta opoia mporoyme na paroyme value -efoswn yparxoyn panta-, eite giati tromazei emas).

En katakleidi: nomizw pws to bet sto turn nai men einai arketa light alla apo thn allh kanei thn partida pio eykolh kai mas phgainei se sd sthn timh poy emeis apofasizoyme apenanti se fylla poy mporoyn na mas paroyn ki allo value. Eidikotera se ayto to board den perimenw na metatrepsei se bluff px to AQ toy pote o antipalos ki as einai tricky. Telos, o antipalos paizei poly perissotero face up to fyllo toy kai emeis den metatrepoyme to diko mas se bluff catcher (poy mas glytwnei apo to na katalhjoyme na kanoyme level ton eayto mas sto river). To synolo aytwn omws aneroyntai an o antipalos den exei kanena made hand poy kerdizoyme sto range toy.

Anyway, better betting than calling.

[Johnny22]

Και πόσα θα πόνταρες?

[holdemgr]

De "metatrepoume to hand mas se bluff catcher". EXOUME bluff catcher

O monos logos na knoume bet einai giati theloume na bloffaroume me shove se katallhla river cards, alla edw den einai kalh idea me to image pou xoume, stacks klp kai epipleon to TT einai lathos hand gia na bloffaroume. (kalytera me ta air hands mas)

O logos pou ta TAGfish paizoun lathos ( akolouthoun ta asteia pot control/stack-a-donk lines) kai par'ol'ayta kanoun profit einai giati o antipalos paizei ki autos lathos (px kanei bet sto turn)

[aizack13]

Sinithos den mou aresei na postarw, alla epeidh auto to thread einai apo ta liga pou exei strategy(kai elpizw na parameinei etsi) tha pw kai egw tin apopsi mou.

genika h partida vs random reg kata ti gnwmi mou pezei apo moni tis, dld chek beh to turn kai prob fold river bet(den perimenw apo ton mesw reg pexti na metatrpsei hand tou stil aq/ak se bluff sto river sxedon pote). opote se auto to simio simfonw apoluta me tin analusi tou holdem sto proto tou post.

holdemgr έγραψε:

O monos logos na knoume bet einai giati theloume na bloffaroume me shove se katallhla river cards, alla edw den einai kalh idea me to image pou xoume, stacks klp kai epipleon to TT einai lathos hand gia na bloffaroume. (kalytera me ta air hands mas)

to hand ginete polu poio periploko otan uparxoun reads/history/image etc etc.

Ta reads pou edwse o op den nomizw oti einai arketa gia na pextei sosta to hand.

Poio einai to 3bet range tou given position and STACK SIZES?

kai se auto den mporoume na poume me asfaleia oti exei mono value hands, an sto range tou uparxoun SC, Axs, SPP, random bluff hands + value hands( jj+,aq+), tote gia mena to BET sto turn exei polu logiki.

Pos pezei ta BPP enantion mas se auto to board?? fantazome oti tis perisoteres fores kanei bet kai analoga to ti kanoume emeis(call or raise kanei evaluate),to free card se auto to board me BPP vs LAG einai eglimatiko.Den nomizw na thelei na kanei chek/call turn and river vs GOOD LAG(pou MPOREI KAI KSEREI NA METATREPEI hands w/sd value se value bluff hands kai profanos auto to board ton xtupaei polu) kai akoma xeirotera chek/raise me BPP se auto to board kai na perimenei na ton kanoume call me xeirotero.

AN loipon apofasisoume na kanoume BET to turn tote tha prepei na to kanoume MONO AN skopeuoume na kanoume call se shove imo, giati opos eipe kai o holdem to c/r sto turn einai katastrofiko gia mas...oxi kai toso:P

An to range tou einai wide se auto to spot tote to 8h,brings backdoor flush,(axhh, pear+gutshot, pear+OE, pear+fd) einai TELEIO spot gia chek raise allin semi bluff given stacksizes(polu kalutero apo 2b)gia enan kalo tricky player.

AN kanoume bet egw kanw bet 23-28bbs kai kanw call se shove..