warm up mid stage ! big stucks 50BB deep

[HPanigma]

eimaste stous 1200 me 700 peripou an plirode average 27k , megala stucks sto trapezi. o pektis kaneir aise every button, arketa agressive , den foldarei se 3bet ektos kai ane inai all in ... pezei polla resta se flop kai den exei show down kanena... egw exw psilo tight image alla epiasa arketa xeria last 20 hands kai exw kanei apanota raises...

einai kalos sxetika pektis polu agro, high average buy in. apopsis apo ebirous pektes pls!! gia na mhn epireasw egw den lew ti ekana...

PokerStars Game #50555794067: Tournament #333020016, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (500/1000) - 2010/10/03 22:40:05 EET [2010/10/03 15:40:05 ET]

Table '333020016 246' 9-max Seat #2 is the button

Seat 1: ta1887 (35034 in chips)

Seat 2: akbars9 (69821 in chips)

Seat 3: jeep200 (10753 in chips)

Seat 4: HPAnigma (52534 in chips)

Seat 5: toniQ78 (16999 in chips)

Seat 6: Romana1978 (1048 in chips) is sitting out

Seat 7: ChillChill (69675 in chips)

Seat 8: zaga33 (31394 in chips)

Seat 9: si_fi1979 (22605 in chips)

ta1887: posts the ante 75

akbars9: posts the ante 75

jeep200: posts the ante 75

HPAnigma: posts the ante 75

toniQ78: posts the ante 75

Romana1978: posts the ante 75

ChillChill: posts the ante 75

zaga33: posts the ante 75

si_fi1979: posts the ante 75

jeep200: posts small blind 500

HPAnigma: posts big blind 1000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to HPAnigma [Ad Ks]

toniQ78: folds

Romana1978: folds

ChillChill: folds

zaga33: folds

si_fi1979: folds

ta1887: folds

akbars9: raises 2000 to 3000

jeep200: folds

HPAnigma: raises 6000 to 9000

akbars9: calls 6000

*** FLOP *** [6c 9h 8c]

HPAnigma: bets 9500

akbars9: raises 51246 to 60746 and is all-in

[Johnny22]

Poker Stars $200+$15 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t500/t1000 Blinds + t75 - 9 players - View hand 963594

DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t35034 M = 16.11

BTN: t69821 M = 32.10

SB: t10753 M = 4.94

Hero (BB): t52534 M = 24.15

UTG: t16999 M = 7.82

UTG+1: t1048 M = 0.48

UTG+2: t69675 M = 32.03

MP1: t31394 M = 14.43

MP2: t22605 M = 10.39

Pre Flop: (t2175) Hero is BB with A K

6 folds, BTN raises to t3000, 1 fold, Hero raises to t9000, BTN calls t6000

Flop: (t19175) 6 9 8(2 players)

Hero bets t9500, BTN raises to t60746 all in

[HPanigma]

epidi den ida kamia adidrasi... grafw kai ti sinexia... kai isos kapios bori na sxoliasei gia to call... oxi result oriented (oute apo to ti eixe oute apo to ti egine )

meta apo skepsi callara giati pistepsa oti eixe auto pou eixe... kai oti ousiastika bori oriaka na eimai brosta(lambanodas oti bazw 34k gia 120k pot makes it really attractive)

HPAnigma: calls 33959 and is all-in

Uncalled bet (17287) returned to akbars9

*** TURN *** [6c 9h 8c] [7s]

*** RIVER *** [6c 9h 8c 7s] [Tc]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

HPAnigma: shows [Ad Ks] (a straight, Six to Ten)

akbars9: shows [Ac 4c] (a flush, Ace high)

parolo pou odws ekana ena kalo read me apasxoli oti isos to prakanw me ta calls.... kai oti benw polu sixna all in...

[foustouki]

Συγνωμη αλλα το call σου μου φαινεται απαισιο..

Εισαι παντα πισω αλλα ακομα και semi bluff να κανει εχει πολυυ equity και μπορει να ειναι και μπροστα..

Δεν εισαι μπροστα απο σχεδον κανενα φυλλο.

Αν κανεις call στο all in σε αυτο το board σημαινει αυτοματα οτι θα εκανες call με ΑΚ στο all in του και σε οποιοδηποτε board..Σωστα?

Μπορεις να μου εξηγησεις με πιο σκεπτικο εκανες το call?

[aekara1921]

auto pou eixe einai ena meros tou range tou kai sto opoio eisai oriaka mprosta.o monos logos na kaneis to call einai ta odds pou pragmati einai poli kala.alla epeidi eiste arketa deep pisteuo pos mporouses na kaneis ena oraio fold kai na sinexiseis.alla sou eipa pos an to deis kathara me ta mathimatika pisteuo pos to call einai even edo.

[aekara1921]

foustouki έγραψε:

Συγνωμη αλλα το call σου μου φαινεται απαισιο..

Εισαι παντα πισω αλλα ακομα και semi bluff να κανει εχει πολυυ equity και μπορει να ειναι και μπροστα..

Δεν εισαι μπροστα απο σχεδον κανενα φυλλο.

Αν κανεις call στο all in σε αυτο το board σημαινει αυτοματα οτι θα εκανες call με ΑΚ στο all in του και σε οποιοδηποτε board..Σωστα?

Μπορεις να μου εξηγησεις με πιο σκεπτικο εκανες το call?

einai piso stis perissoteres periptoseis alla nomizo pos to allin pou kanei exei mesa draws,isos exei overpair,isos toppair,isos pair kai kapoio draw mazi.profanos einai piso alla thelei 25% gia na kanei call.den to exei oriaka?episis mporei na exei idiaitero read gia ton paixti pos kanei tetoies kiniseis me draws opote edo sigoura to call to sizitame.an tou emenan kato apo 20 blinds tote to call exei aksia imo.edo omos mporei na sinexisei me sxetika kalo stack ara kai go eimai iper tou fold.

[HPanigma]

einai polu advanced play na callareis afilos ekei kai na eisai kai brosta... opote to na sxoliazeis apla "apaisio call" no epixirimata... think the hand

eimai brosta 90% twn forwn ekei kai sxedon pada exw panw apo 25% equity pou mou dinoun ta pot odds...

1) super agressive plyer se button-BB tha shovare i tha ekane 4bet JJ+ opote overpair spania blepeis ekei.. dene iani tight raiser apo midle position...

2) exw diksei polu dinami gia na shovarei 40BB+ pou simenei edona semi bluf-DRAW,

3)set as poume tha ekane smooth call gia na ginw commited kai na ta baloume turn... kanodas to raise tous to turn.

3) to mono xeri pou eimai pisw einai combo hand pair + draw pou tha dikeologouse toso agression (lambanodas upospin oti exw diksei super dinami)pou diskola tha callare se 3bet toso megalo...

4) ta xeria pou callaroun 3bet in position den einai set minning hands... kurios einai 2 big cards ta opia exoun kanei completly missed opws kai egw ... kai ksafnika ginan super agressive... FLUSH DRAW...

5) aplo top pair xwris draw den to sizitaw tha ekane call kai mallom fold se 2nd barrel.. einai kalos pextis... oute kan reraise shove 40BB ...

apla gia na katalabeis exw to idio equity me to na krataga KK...

enadion olwn twn draw eimai panw pao 50%+

opote sta dika mou ta matia ETSI opws pextike to hand eimai brosta se megalo pososto...

mhn blepeis ksera ... poo callare afilos se reraise all in... xalia call...

oso gia to sxolio call sto all in se opiodipote flop me missed AK... profanos kai oxi.. einai ena extremly heavy draw flop.. ama einai dry flop kai diksei dinami einai auto fold...einai heavy draw flop pou exoun kanei miss xeria piou callaroun in position....

[foustouki]

Συνεχιζω να διαφωνω.

Λες οτι εχεις δειξει φοβερη δυναμη αρα με λιγα λογια JJ+ και ο αλλος μπαινει all in αρα περιμενει snap απο το range σου?γιατι με απλο χρωμα να μπει all in και να μην δει απλα το turn.

Μην κρινεις εκ του αποτελεσματος.

Νομιζεις οτι εκανες κατι σωστο επειδη το αποτελεσμα σε ευχαριστησε.

Θα δω τα νουμερα αργοτερα και θα σ απαντησω και με νουμερα.

"eimai brosta 90% twn forwn ekei"

Ειλικρινα το πιστευεις αυτο?

Πριν δεν σ απαντησα απλα απαισιο call χωρις να το σκεφτω.

Θα σ απαντησω αναλυτικοτερα λιγο αργοτερα.

[HPanigma]

me pio range xeriwn tha ekane call se 3bet.. kai shove se auto to baord pou tha eimoun pisw... apo super agressive se button-BB situation

realistika ranges... kai pesou pia einai brosta... giati call in position ekei apo button mono xeria Axs+ KJs+ KQo, isos 77-99 , pou i eimai polu brosta i den tha kanan shove flop (an htan polu brosta opws anelisa...)

den perimenei pada snap apo to range mou... elpizei oti AQ+ tha foldarw... kai VS JJ+ EXEI sxedon 50% ara logiko na shoavrei... an erthei blank turn kai baresw dene xei equity gia call...

[dandan.de]

apo tin arxi: de marese to toso megalo 3 bet, nai eisai oop alla

opos eipes kai monos sou o tipos callarei ola ta 3 bet.

AK dinato fillo pou eksisonei ligo to meionektima thesis. To cbet

sigoura mikrotero se tetoio board kai telos to allin tou einai

typical play imo flush draw. Poso mprosta eisai apenanti se

flush draw???????? Einai afto kalo spot na xaseis 54 blinds kai

to tournament life? Episis an einai winning aggro opos les,

kallista mporei na ekmetalevetai to maniac image tou kai na se

kanei trap me monster i apla me kalo overpair. Iparxei ena pososto

pou apla thelei na sou kanei outplay apla kai mono epidi kserei oti

den eisai high stakes paiktis, alla me to skeptiko oti oloi pane

na mas klepsoun ta karfonoume. Fold kai psakse allo spot.

[OMG Internets]

HPanigma έγραψε:

eimaste stous 1200 me 700 peripou an plirode average 27k , megala stucks sto trapezi. o pektis kaneir aise every button, arketa agressive , den foldarei se 3bet ektos kai ane inai all in ... pezei polla resta se flop kai den exei show down kanena... egw exw psilo tight image alla epiasa arketa xeria last 20 hands kai exw kanei apanota raises...

einai kalos sxetika pektis polu agro, high average buy in. apopsis apo ebirous pektes pls!! gia na mhn epireasw egw den lew ti ekana...

PokerStars Game #50555794067: Tournament #333020016, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level X (500/1000) - 2010/10/03 22:40:05 EET [2010/10/03 15:40:05 ET]

Table '333020016 246' 9-max Seat #2 is the button

Seat 1: ta1887 (35034 in chips)

Seat 2: akbars9 (69821 in chips)

Seat 3: jeep200 (10753 in chips)

Seat 4: HPAnigma (52534 in chips)

Seat 5: toniQ78 (16999 in chips)

Seat 6: Romana1978 (1048 in chips) is sitting out

Seat 7: ChillChill (69675 in chips)

Seat 8: zaga33 (31394 in chips)

Seat 9: si_fi1979 (22605 in chips)

ta1887: posts the ante 75

akbars9: posts the ante 75

jeep200: posts the ante 75

HPAnigma: posts the ante 75

toniQ78: posts the ante 75

Romana1978: posts the ante 75

ChillChill: posts the ante 75

zaga33: posts the ante 75

si_fi1979: posts the ante 75

jeep200: posts small blind 500

HPAnigma: posts big blind 1000

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to HPAnigma [Ad Ks]

toniQ78: folds

Romana1978: folds

ChillChill: folds

zaga33: folds

si_fi1979: folds

ta1887: folds

akbars9: raises 2000 to 3000

jeep200: folds

HPAnigma: raises 6000 to 9000

akbars9: calls 6000

*** FLOP *** [6c 9h 8c]

HPAnigma: bets 9500

akbars9: raises 51246 to 60746 and is all-in

obv you mean this:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 215 Tournament, 500/1000 Blinds 75 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t35034)

Button (t69821)

SB (t10753)

Hero (BB) (t52534)

UTG (t16999)

UTG+1 (t1048)

MP1 (t69675)

MP2 (t31394)

MP3 (t22605)

Hero's M: 24.15

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, K

6 folds, Button bets t3000, 1 fold, Hero raises to t9000, Button calls t6000

Flop: (t19175) 6, 9, 8(2 players)

Hero bets t9500, Button raises to t60746 (All-In)

Total pot: t38175

[harima]

Emena mou aresei polu to call pantws gg hpanigma an kai ul.

[aekara1921]

harima έγραψε:

Emena mou aresei polu to call pantws gg hpanigma an kai ul.

blepontas tin analisi pou ekane prin kai se sindiasmo me ta odds teino na simfoniso pos to call edo den einai lathos skepsi,episis to fold pali den einai lathos me tin logiki pos tha mporouses na breis pio sigoura simeia na paikseis to stack sou kai pos exeis kalo stack gia na sinexiseis.an pragmati exeis bgalei ap to range tou middle pairs pou mporei na exoun setarei tote kaneis call.ego omos diafono pos sto range tou den iparxoun setarismena zeugaria.iparxei pithanotita na kanei tetoio move kai me set imo.

[OMG Internets]

Tricky, tricky spot.

To opr deixnei megalo abi alla elaxista tour probably cash player(?).

Pera aptin plaka they key spot einai ti gnomi exei aftos gia sena k obv se theorei kapoion random (sorry hehe).

fisika kserei oti to 3bet sou ekei einai arketa light gia resteal k callarei gia na se kanei outplay in pos.

To allin tou ekei exei one ton of FE logo scary board k episis kserei oti den exoun xtipisei para polloi sindiasmoi sou Ax, KQ maybe.

To thema einai oti to overbet tou kanei efkolotero to call sou. Obv se mikro raise tou ta petas easily. pantos perimenei na pasareis poli sixna toso deep...

nice play by him imo.

Oso afora esena pithanotata callareis vazontas ton se FD k oxi made hand, alla to equity sou den einai kai KK. Ki afto giati den prepei na ipologizeis to equity me to seen hand, alla me to perceived.

"exw diksei polu dinami gia na shovarei 40BB+ pou simenei edona semi bluf-DRAW".

lathos: to 3bet se tetoia spots einai pio sixno k apo katourima meta apo 12 mpires.

den exeis pano apo 50% apenanti se ola ta draws giati paizoun k draws pou se gonatizoun. JTc, T9c, A7c klp klp. Ok diskola exei straight ekei (tha callare de tha fovotan to FD sou alla perissotero overpair)

fold it. To apla ton vazo se FD kai callaro me AK einai ligo trash play imo sorry in such a scary board apenanti se kapoion pou isos kai vrike to spot na casharei to image tou.

[aekara1921]

einai poli sixna ta 3bets alla kirios ta mini 3bets.edo pragmati deixnei dinami me x3 3bet.gia mena an den iparxei idiaitero read auto simainei poli kleisto range.gia mena kako to call pou kanei sto 3bet alla poli kalo shove.to call edo tha itan poli passive game.

[HPanigma]

OMG Internets έγραψε:

Tricky, tricky spot.

To opr deixnei megalo abi alla elaxista tour probably cash player(?).

Pera aptin plaka they key spot einai ti gnomi exei aftos gia sena k obv se theorei kapoion random (sorry hehe).

fisika kserei oti to 3bet sou ekei einai arketa light gia resteal k callarei gia na se kanei outplay in pos.

To allin tou ekei exei one ton of FE logo scary board k episis kserei oti den exoun xtipisei para polloi sindiasmoi sou Ax, KQ maybe.

To thema einai oti to overbet tou kanei efkolotero to call sou. Obv se mikro raise tou ta petas easily. pantos perimenei na pasareis poli sixna toso deep...

nice play by him imo.

Oso afora esena pithanotata callareis vazontas ton se FD k oxi made hand, alla to equity sou den einai kai KK. Ki afto giati den prepei na ipologizeis to equity me to seen hand, alla me to perceived.

"exw diksei polu dinami gia na shovarei 40BB+ pou simenei edona semi bluf-DRAW".

lathos: to 3bet se tetoia spots einai pio sixno k apo katourima meta apo 12 mpires.

den exeis pano apo 50% apenanti se ola ta draws giati paizoun k draws pou se gonatizoun. JTc, T9c, A7c klp klp. Ok diskola exei straight ekei (tha callare de tha fovotan to FD sou alla perissotero overpair)

fold it. To apla ton vazo se FD kai callaro me AK einai ligo trash play imo sorry in such a scary board apenanti se kapoion pou isos kai vrike to spot na casharei to image tou.

les arxika kai monos sou oti to bet sizing mou kanei efkolo call giati akribos dixeni draw... kai meta les fold it - trash play...

an einai se draw 90% eimaste 50-50 me ta pot odds mou sto 25-30%, kai uparxei kai i periptosi na eimai se asximi katastasi me JTc etc... alla polu pio diskola kai me pali 30%+ equity!

mono an ebaza sto range tou made hands tha eprepe na foldarw... pou me to pws pextike i partida tinoun sto 0... opiosdipote solid player den tha epeze etsi made hand...

to mono pou me apasxolise einai oti eixa stuck na minw sto tourney aneta... an kai austiros poker-mathimatika einai call gia emena toulaxiston...

oson afora to equity pou eipa oti einai adistixo me kk to ennoousa vs drawing hands profanos... an bazeis combo hands pair+ draw profanos den isxuei...

[foustouki]

HPanigma έγραψε:

les arxika kai monos sou oti to bet sizing mou kanei efkolo call giati akribos dixeni draw... kai meta les fold it - trash play...

an einai se draw 90% eimaste 50-50 me ta pot odds mou sto 25-30%, kai uparxei kai i periptosi na eimai se asximi katastasi me JTc etc... alla polu pio diskola kai me pali 30%+ equity!

mono an ebaza sto range tou made hands tha eprepe na foldarw... pou me to pws pextike i partida tinoun sto 0... opiosdipote solid player den tha epeze etsi made hand...

to mono pou me apasxolise einai oti eixa stuck na minw sto tourney aneta... an kai austiros poker-mathimatika einai call gia emena toulaxiston...

oson afora to equity pou eipa oti einai adistixo me kk to ennoousa vs drawing hands profanos... an bazeis combo hands pair+ draw profanos den isxuei...

Δεν μπορω να καταλαβω γιατι τα made hand τεινουν στο 0..

[giorgio]

Καταρχήν βάζεις 34Κ για 73Κ. Ακόμα και αν είναι close call (που δε νομίζω ότι είναι) καλό θα ήταν να σκεφτείς πώς βρέθηκες σε αυτή την άσχημη κατάσταση.

[safesteps]

giorgio έγραψε:

καλό θα ήταν να σκεφτείς πώς βρέθηκες σε αυτή την άσχημη κατάσταση.

Αυτό! Δεν ξέρω αν ο giorgio εννοεί το ίδιο μ' αυτό που γράφω παρακάτω αλλά εμένα δεν μου αρέσει καθόλου το c-bet εδώ. Θεωρώ το c-bet εύκολα exploitable σ' αυτό το σημείο από solid reg in position. Βέβαια, δεν θα έκανα c-bet σ' αυτό το board και με ΚΚ (μιας και συζητήθηκαν) προσπαθώντας να κρατήσω το pot όσο πιο χαμηλά γίνεται καθώς το board δεν είναι μόνο draw heavy αλλά χτυπάει θανάσιμα το calling range του στο 3bet σου. Το check-fold εδώ, ούτε υποτιμητικό είναι, ούτε σε κάνει exploitable.

[kasspav]

Εγω σε αντιστοιχα σημεια εχω δυο τρόπους παιχνιδιου ανάλογα τον αντίπαλο.

1ο call pre, και παιζουμε φλοπ. Το ΑΚ οοp το συχαινομαι, ιδιαίτερα VS καλους παίχτες ή aggresive. Αν δεν χτυπήσω Α ή Κ...σε bet στο φλοπ πασάρω ή call ενα street.

2o Ακριβώς ετσι όπως το έπαιξες, αλλα φυσικά fold στο allin του...και δεν το λεω λογω result. Σε εκεινο το σημειο ενας καλος παιχτης ειναι ειτε σε καλο draw, ειτε εχει set, ειτε ΑΑ ΚΚ. Με Α high και χωρις draws δεν υπάρχει call...call σε περιπου τετοια σποτς θα κανω αν θεωρω οτι ενας shortstack επιχειρει stopngo κινηση.

[harima]

Στο χερι ο HPanigma δεινει συγκεκριμενο read οτι ο αντιπαλος δε παει πασο σε τετοια 3bet spots

Αυτο αυτοματα σημαινει δυο πραματα:

Το ΑΚ μας ειναι μιλια μπροστα απτο preflop range του.

Το ΑΚ μας κατα 65% θα κανει miss το board και θα μαστε οοp σε 3bet pot και με aggro καλο (?)αντιπαλο.

Given stack sizes νομιζω οτι κατα 75% κανω call pre και παιζω hit or miss poker.

Αν κανω 3bet και κανω miss το φλοπ :

Στο συγκεκριμενο απαραδεκτο drawy flop νομιζω οτι το πιο υγιες ειναι c/f

Αν κανω bet out οπως και εγινε το χερι νομιζω οτι το δευτερο καλυτερο σεναριο απτο να foldarei ο αντιπαλος, ειναι να τα φαμε ολα στο κεφαλι. Πολυ πιο προβληματικο μου φαινεται να μας flatarei.

Κοινως δε μου αρεσει ΚΑΘΟΛΟΥ το cbet σε τετοιο drawy board αν εχουμε σκοπο να πασαρουμε σε shove. Χιλιες φορες giveup και c/f

(Ολα αυτα δεδομενου του read για τον αντιπαλο)

[mathew ace]

Preflop standar 3bet obv.

Post flop OOP either Check/Fold ( to protimw vasi tou board ) or Bet/Fold se shove.